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April 21, 2008

Comments

FK

Good luck to McCain on that one. Based on the arguments I've seen on this blog, it will be hard for him to unite the conservative base. It seems to me that Democrats like McCain more than many members of his own party do.

Dgscol

And I thought she was checking galley proofs on the weekends....

gringoman

Monica,

Yes, the leftniki may indeed beget the warrior Joshua---I mean John McCain. However, as you would know, the monotheist Bible begat the monotheist Koran (thank you, Mohammed.)

And so now the muslims step into what we are told is not a Holy or un-Holy War, as cited in the new gringommentary at http://www.gringoman.com/). Right. They are simply injecting themselves into ELECTION 2008 (immediately after the Hamas petting of Charisma Barry.)

MUSLIMS ATTACK JOHNNY BOY

(with link to Washington Times on the latest manifestation of the "moderates" and how they want American infidels to run an American election.)


FK

Michael --

Can you get this thread back on topic?

gringoman

(Here is the text for new gringommentary at http://www.gringoman.com/)

MUSLIMS ATTACK JOHNNY BOY

Many Republicans, especially the Beltway type like our President, view Islam as "a religion of peace." On this issue they are just as politically correct as any liberal or Democrat or self-styled "progressive."

And so, it will be very interesting to see who sides with who in this new flare-up over the use of "Islamic" for terrorists and assassins like the Osamatons, the suicide-bombers, the Obama-friendly Hamas etc etc.

John McCain, presumed warrior and soon-to-be-nominated Republican candidate for President, is currently ruffling muslim feathers, or head-dress, or hijabs. How? "The "muslim community" demands that he stop using "Islamic" to describe these Allah-fervent fanatics who read the Koran and blow up things, including men, women and children.

"A COALITION OF AMERICAN MUSLIM GROUPS IS DEMANDING THAT SEN JOHN MCCAIN STOP USING THE ADJECTIVE 'ISLAMIC' TO DESCRIBE TERRORISTS AND EXTREME ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/NATION/438135169/1001

gringoNote: It will be most interesting to see whether Johnny Boy backs down from this concentrated barrage of muslims (less than 3% of the U.S. population, so far) who are now, in effect, "demanding" a speech code for the US electoral process---an American process that was born in an American revolt against what the American Thomas Jefferson called "every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


But we live in Free Trade times. Sovereign petrol muslims know how the game works.

Should we ask: How soon will Johnny cave to this billionaire-backed pressure? (We know what Georgie Bush would do, in consultation with the State Department and "moderate" oil sheikhs.)

Anyone taking bets?

FK

Wait a minute. You don't like Muslims, Gringoman?

SteveOk

The chickens are coming home to roost in the Democratic Party. They thought that they could bring nutjobs onboard the Democratic Party like Michael Moore, Moveon.org, Dennis Kucinich and a whole host of whackos and everthing would be fine in the Party. Well, guess what, these people are more than willing to plunge off the side of the cliff and take the Democratic Party with them. There isn't going to be any unity at the Democratic Convention, what there will be is Armageddon. We could very well have a civil war in the Democratic Party and a Third Party emerge led by the whackjobs at Moveon.org and the Michael Moore nuts. The Democratic Party is in a tight corkscrew nose dive about ready to crash and burn, and burn baby burn.

FK

You include moveon.org in the category of the Democrats' "nutjobs".

Would you include the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth in the category of the Republicans' "nutjobs"?

Account Deleted

Fred, And ruin everybody's fun?

OK, let me try anyway ...

G-man - do you think that pious, peace-loving followers of Islam are not justified to ask McCain to stop using "Islam" in the same phrase as "radical" and "extreme", as justified as we believe he is in using it? Or do you feel "pious" and "peace-loving" don't belong adjacent to Islam? Or, would you approve of the continued use of "Catholic pedophiles" to describe what is decidedly an apostasy from Catholicism if the Mother Church asked for a moratorium on that phrase in the interests of healing? Or could you accept that terrorism possibly be contra-Islam, repulsive to the majority of Islam? In which case, would McCain not show some class by acceding to this request from mainstream Islam, thereby eliciting their support in our struggle against the Contra-Islam terrorists?

But to propose to get this discussion back on thread: McCain cannot rely solely on being begotten by a split in the Democratic Party during a primary season. During his interview Sunday on ABC, they previewed a very effective anti-McCain ad, which would be difficult to dispute. McCain is not yet comfortable with economic issues, although his instincts are in the right place. In addition, it looks like he raised only $15 M in March.

This is not going to be easy for him.

SteveOk

Fredo, what does the Swiftees have to do with the tight corkscrew nose dive the Democratic Party finds itself in? I know the Swiftees scared you and John Kerry for life but what does that have to do with the 2008 Democratic Convention. Can't you see Armageddon coming? Take a cup of strong coffee.

Ummahgummah

Gman, you are RIGHT on POINT.

Ummahgummah

McCins not going to get a single moslem vote if Barack HUSSEIN Obama wins the nomination. So why even bother to act like he likes them?

Barack HUSSEIN NObama has the endorsement of every moslem group and organization in America.

That should tell us something.

He also has an interesting mox of radical gfringe groups that endorse him.. like FarraKKKan and the New Black Panters.. oh, and whatever the leftovers are of the Weather Underground...

LOL

This guy attracts a whole lotta fleas.

And we're all expected to act like we don't notice.

Good grief, you should read what the liberal Euro media are writing on the election.

In Gewrmany they are labeling Hitlery the witch already. They're braying that she is dragging BHO down by having a picture of bin Laden along with other historic events in one of her ads.

As liberal as McCain is.. I want him to win just to STICK it to the EUSSR media.

They are beginning to read like a mix of 'Pravda' and 'Der Stürmer'.

How DARE they try and influence an election in the USA. This country is STILL a sovereign Nation.

McCain is our best hope that it will stay that way. For now.

Ummahgummah

Speaking of the German media.. There is a very funny movie Billy Wilder made in Berlin just before the Soviets built the Wall.

The movie is called 1,2,3! and is shot in the American and the Soviet sector.

You can get the synopsis at IMB better than if I try to give one here.

There is a funny sequence when the main boss of Coca-Cola in Berlin played by James Cagney is visited by a rather pesky member of the German press.

Ummahgummah

Cagney is trying to get the pressman to suppress a particular bit of news regarding a family event and the pressman gets all blustery and starts talking about the independent German Press and so on and so forth.. just like they do over here.. the MSM are and always will be.. the MSM.

Ummahgummah

Anway.. a former underling of this pressman comes into the room and recognizes the man, click-clacks his heels, gives the Hitler salute and says hello, Herr Obersturmbandführer.

Ummahgummah

So James Cagney smiles ever so sweetly at the Obersturmbandpressman and says 'so Herr Obersturmbandführer, what about that article you were going to write?'.

Account Deleted

I think it is interesting that McCain has to re-establish at every opportunity his conservative credentials by re-stating the obvious, "I am a conservative Republican". He is trying too hard to placate evangelicals or some other imaginary group, which is an indication that his campaign handlers are not letting McCain be McCain. Reagan had the same problem, but he was confident enough in his beliefs that when he shook up his campaign and the new team let Reagan be Reagan he was unstoppable.

McCain has been spooked by his positions on immigration, torture, and campaign finance, and one senses he is striving to get on a little league team that never picked him. He doesn't know it yet but he is as conservative as they come on government spending and waste. That is still opaque to the public.

Let McCain be McCain ... his innate ideas coincide with those of conservatism and we will see it transparently and with poetic ease if they can find free expression.

There were teases of this free expression on Sunday, "Both my opponents want big government solutions to healthcare." Yes! Please tell us more.

Ree

Obama may know even less then we give him credit for.

I am trying to figure out just what part of the Pennsylvania population Obama is critiquing, you know the people who cling to God, Guns and have an aversion to people different from them. Wasn't Obama campaigning in Pennsylvania during the Tax season? Isn't it much more likely people just got done or were in the process of paying their taxes? Then along comes Obama and he is promising them what exactly? Government Programs, don't Government Programs cost taxpayers money, don't alot of non legal aliens use the Government Programs? Now if this is the case why wouldn't Pennsylvanians be bitter. Is Obama and the MSM so out of touch with American's basis concerns? Or is this interpetation just not a sexy enough sound byte? Obama is Green and maybe not a very critical thinker.

Ree

American's basic concerns.

Ref.BB

The conservative party is in transition. Who can say where their ideologies will change. I think it's a good change. The voice of the conservatives seem to be very harsh and caustic. That could be a sign of their changing times.

What happened to that voice?

Ummahgummah

Umm.. the Typekey Java...

Ummahgummah

Fred, WHY are we obliged to LIKE moslems? You just have it all twisted. THEY need to prove they like US.

They are coming to live among us, capice?

They need to make US comfortable!

They have to prove they are and will be good citizens given the violent hellholes they spawn out of.

After 911 even more so.. jesus Liberals always get it back @sswards.

Ummahgummah

Why the hell does everybody have to like everyone!

Do the moslem like US??!! Why is it ALWAYS WE who have to like everyone and beg for them to like us?!

I am SO SICK AND TIRED of PC and liberalism!!!!

Some of us do NOT want to sing Kumbaya!!

We don't like Koolaid either. We like Jack or we like Black.

Ummahgummah

REE.. Full Score on all points! I just met with my tax accountant and boy, do I feel bitter too!

Let the libs pay higher taxes and put their money where their mouth is.

I know only ONE lib who actually does just that and that is Tracy Chapman. She only keeps 10% of her income. The rest she puts into whatever causes she happens to support.

Liberals are encouraged to emulate Ms. Chapman and give to their favorite cause:

BIG GOVERNMENT

Ummahgummah

Fred this one's for YOU:

Ummahgummah

“When you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.”

Winston Churchill

Ummahgummah

I think this Churchill dude gives pretty good advice don't you?

gringoman

Michael, see my replies in brackets. Thanx. Gman.


I think it is interesting that McCain has to re-establish at every opportunity his conservative credentials by re-stating the obvious, "I am a conservative Republican". He is trying too hard to placate evangelicals or some other imaginary group, which is an indication that his campaign handlers are not letting McCain be McCain. Reagan had the same problem, but he was confident enough in his beliefs that when he shook up his campaign and the new team let Reagan be Reagan he was unstoppable.

[Agree, more or less. McCain, in real life, is a pretty cocky straight talker, and not a prefabricated "orator" like Obama. Far more of the electorate will go for McCain's real style than what Soros lucre and the libs can scare by playing him as an "old warmonger." However, if he decides to be "careful" and bottle it up, he will succeed in letting Obama's fancy callow overshadow McCain substance. Losing would serve him right for betraying his instincts. He's the only one of the three whose got instincts worth the effort.]

McCain has been spooked by his positions on immigration, torture, and campaign finance, and one senses he is striving to get on a little league team that never picked him. He doesn't know it yet but he is as conservative as they come on government spending and waste. That is still opaque to the public.

Let McCain be McCain ... his innate ideas coincide with those of conservatism and we will see it transparently and with poetic ease if they can find free expression.

[McCain is sui generis. That does coincide with conservatism---sometimes.}

There were teases of this free expression on Sunday, "Both my opponents want big government solutions to healthcare." Yes! Please tell us more.

Fred, And ruin everybody's fun?

OK, let me try anyway ...

G-man - do you think that pious, peace-loving followers of Islam are not justified to ask McCain to stop using "Islam" in the same phrase as "radical" and "extreme", as justified as we believe he is in using it? Or do you feel "pious" and "peace-loving" don't belong adjacent to Islam?


{Michael, I can't read their Islamic minds, but if they are good muslims, they MUST believe they are justified. In the same vein, an articulate American would be justified in asking the majority of muslims why they can't stop the minority which continues to defy, assassinate and intimidate them. Or do you think a Christian would not be justified in asking such a question?]

Or, would you approve of the continued use of "Catholic pedophiles" to describe what is decidedly an apostasy from Catholicism if the Mother Church asked for a moratorium on that phrase in the interests of healing? Or could you accept that terrorism possibly be contra-Islam, repulsive to the majority of Islam?

{Michael, with all due respect, you are confusing the issue. The issue is about a religion taking responsibility for atrocities committed by its adherents. This Pope shows signs of doing that. Do you know of any Islamic equivalent doing likewise to the terrorists, aside from cheap bromides about what is and is not Islam? Would you be satisfied with "moderate" Catholics who keep telling you not to blame them for the "excesses" of a minority of Catholics when they show no sign of seriously addressing the problem, let alone stopping it? Do you know of any Catholics who would have the lives of themselves and family in grave danger for "snitching" on the "extremists"? Can you show us that Catholic pedophile clergy continue to be a world-wide danger, and the "moderates' unable to stop it despite global uproar. If you can, let us know. If your evidence is persuasive, I will seriously consider calling Catholicism a religion of pedophiles.]

In which case, would McCain not show some class by acceding to this request from mainstream Islam, thereby eliciting their support in our struggle against the Contra-Islam terrorists?

[In that case, McCain would show the same kind of "class" that Bush does by referring to Islam as a "religion of peace."] He and his fellow contractors and Free Traders in Dubai would see it as "class" as the sheikhs stroke them fondly and agree to buy more US assets. Others will see it as craven, the sign of a man too mediocre and inarticulatem even to have a tough dialogue with Islamics, but gullible enough to think that he is truly respected by them for his shallowness.]

But to propose to get this discussion back on thread: McCain cannot rely solely on being begotten by a split in the Democratic Party during a primary season. During his interview Sunday on ABC, they previewed a very effective anti-McCain ad, which would be difficult to dispute. McCain is not yet comfortable with economic issues, although his instincts are in the right place. In addition, it looks like he raised only $15 M in March.

This is not going to be easy for him.

[Yes, McCain would have a problem if he decides to be the kind of patriot who can't raise money from the billionaires who truly want the end of the USA as a sovereign entity that was announced to the world in 1776. He could still win, though, if he decided to be himself and let the fun begin. Americans will still go for a fighting man over a handmaiden for the multi-national plutocracy. Is Johnny up to that, the fight of a lifetime? I don't know. We may soon find out, so I'll contain my doubts for now.]


Account Deleted

G-man,

Good points all ...

Some counterpoints:

- I believe not only "an articulate American would be justified" but a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu or anyone else would be in asking such a question. This should be done in dialog, not rancor. What do we gain by categorically condemning an entire religion? Or by generalizing because perhaps Islam has never been held to the rigor of examination as other religions have and therefore may not meet our standards of protest against injustices within its own ranks?

- A religion cannot be held accountable for its flock, anymore than the Pope can atone for the sins of the Mafia. It can and should be accountable for the atrocities of those acting under pretext in its name, e.g., priests or ... mullahs. I therefore concede the point that Islam would win in the court of world opinion if it could be more vociferous against terrorists who hide behind a contrived definition of "jihad" as military struggle. They should clarify that the intent of jihad is "struggle" to make the world more Godly, and in that sense offer to work with us toward that end. (At this point I can hear the steam being expelled from UG's ears out of his concern that I am being too "liberally" idealistic!)

- In spite of my comments, I do not put Islam on par with other religions, because the conflating of the religion with Arab politics has polluted both and has kept the Middle East in the dark ages. But ... we cannot write off all those people ...

- By calling Islam a religion of peace, Bush is doing the right thing: setting the expectation of behavior for that sector of the world and trying to isolate the extremists. McCain has also differentiated terrorism from Islam as a whole. This is just nuanced diplomacy.

- To your point about maintaining sovereignty of the USA, how about this: McCain could solve both his financial problem and reaffirm American sovereignty by declaring that free trade does not mean that sovereign wealth funds [investment funds run by foreign governments] have the right to buy US assets. Then he could appeal to us average Americans to send in small contributions to help him. I imagine the presence of big money may have the unintended effect of repelling individual contributions, but have no evidence. A couple of bold and imaginative policy statements may embolden his campaign.

Cheers,

Ummahgummah

... we cannot write off all those people ...

That's what they say about us.

You see, allah isn't satisfied until everyone on Earth has "reverted" [as they call] it to the final Word of the G-d they call alla.

I'd be more than happy to write them off and let them figure it out on their own.

I am glad that you have noticed the conflagration of Arab imperialism and islam. islam is the perfect vehicle for that irredentist imperialism.

As for your earlier statement.. I do NOT want to work with them in any way at all on jihad. Period. And I think Fred will agree with me that the last thing we need is for the world to be made more "godly".

M/M

I'm listening to Curtis and he is reminding all Pennsylvania Republicans TO VOTE FOR HILLARY today.

Ree, don't forget that Obama wants to increase the capital gains tax too.

M/M

Go, HillRod, Go,

Knock out that wuss NObama right on the Rocky steps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O8xoN9NSzw

FK

UG --

You know how I feel about religion. I prefer it to be a private matter, and I like it kept out of my government. All religion, not just Muslim.

M/M

Good luck today H-Rod!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPDcMyPlFvw

gringoman

Michael, let's clarify a couple points.

First, this typical straw man about "writing off all the muslims." That reminds me of the straw man used by the progs (no need to mention names) when they try to obfuscate by dishonestly calling opponents morons who want to deport 12 million yada-yada-yada.

We expect this from white progs, and leave them to rant to themselves when they think they are addressing others and demonstrating their "intelligence."

But we know that you are better than that, Michael. No, I do not need to write off a billion muslims anymore than you would write off difficult children. Parents obviously must deal with these children....Is this clear enough?


You ask what is to be gained by categorically condemning an entire religion?

Is that question posed to me or to Ummah?

It would be diplomatically untenable for a President to condemn a religion with a billion followers, no matter what his personal beliefs. On the other hand, for a President, after 1400 documented years to blandly call Islam a "religion of peace" is a mockery of the human mind, and what we call history. It shows how far he is willing to stoop for a smile from his Arab creditors, who he stupidly thinks respect him for it.


Note: Ummah is not a US official. He is free, in my opinion, to speak his mind,even if it offends every muslim who ever lived and submitted. That's the Greek influence on the West, which Islam has managed to avoid for more than a thousand years.

ps Do I understand that you, Michael, as a Christian capitalist, side with the muslims and against John McCain re "Islamic terrorist"? Pray tell.

FK

"Straw man" arguments are not exclusively used by Democrats or liberals.

Ummahgummah

Gman.. I WISH I WAS a US official.. we'd close down each and every mosk that preaches ONE word of hatred toward "infidels".

CYA - never wanna be ya!

And no more SOWdi lobbying groups either. Let those fat swine return to their camel-infested deserts and MINIMIZE their evil presence in Washington, DC.

Yes, and I would prosecute the A.merican C.riminal L.awyers' U.nion under RICO statutes. And bring them up for treason and sedition.

No more kowtowing before the false gods of liberalism!

FK

UG --

So is it your position that a dictatorship is the best form of government, because it sounds like that's what you have described.

You still don't understand that the danger is becoming what we despise.

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