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January 20, 2008

Comments

J. Pierpont Finch

Monica,

I'm suffering from "Electile Dysfunction" - the inability to become aroused over any of the choices for president put forth by either party in the 2008 election year.

Can you help?

charlie

Monica,

Some time back, Finch posted an interesting piece entitled: HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?
Its about the degeneration of civilzations and democraacy.

Eight steps are listed, starting with bondage, and ending up with the same.
From the appearance of things, it would seem that we're at #7 From apathy to DEPENDENCE.

Finch could do us a favor, and post it in its entirety again, if he cares to.

SteveOk

Obama is accusing Bill Clinton of disorting the truth about him, basically he is calling the ex-President a liar. That is not a revelation, that Bill Clinton is a liar, but it is interesting that Obama is making Bill Clinton the center of the campaign now. I was shocked last week when Bill Clinton got personally involved in the debate on whether citizens of Nevada should caucus in casinos. Why should an ex-President get involved in a local state issue like that? It absurd and demeans the office of the President. He is continues to sully the office of President like he did while in the Oval Office with his affairs. He is basically campaigning for a third term as President and is going around as if he was running for a term.

I'm currently reading Doris Kearns Goodwin's book, "Team of Rivals" where she talks a length about the Republican Convention in Chicago (Wigwam) in 1860 and the contest between William Henry Seward, Salmon Chase, Edward Bates, and Abraham Lincoln, and how Lincoln was able to obtain the nomination and then go on to win the election. The main difference back then was they didn't have Primaries and the Delegates were not selected like they are now. The Conventions back then actually selected the Presidential nominee.

FK

Steveok --

Lincoln is my favorite president, and I'm always willing to hear why anything from his life is relevant to what's happening today. You mention that you are reading Kearns's book (which I have not read), but you don't go into why you mention it. Are you saying that the method of selecting candidates was better back then?

SteveOk

Fred, I'm not saying it was better but I don't think it was undemocratic. It was a form of representative democracy that produced the selection of Abraham Lincoln even though he wasn't nationally known like the others.

As to the relevance of Abraham Lincoln or any other historical figure (such as the guy that lived over 2,000 years ago that Huckabee keeps talking about) I will not attempt to enlighten you but just suggest you read Kearns' book for yourself. If you are a Lincoln guy, you will enjoy the book too.

J. Pierpont Finch

Re-Post by popula Request:

http://bloggingroanoke.blogspot.com/2006/05/how-long-do-we-have-left-as-democratic.html

How Long Do We Have Left As A Democratic Country?
-------------------------------------------------
About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. From apathy to dependence;***

8. From dependence back into bondage ..."

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million; Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000 States won by: Gore: 19 Bush: 29 Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2 Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this country. Gore's
territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned projects and living off government welfare..." (Can you say New Orleans, New York City, New You-Owe-Me, etc.) Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

The critical point is when people living on government entitlements passes 50% and can control future elections. From that point, the party that promises the most free entitlements wins. Unfortunately less than 50% of the population will be paying the taxes to support the majority. It won't be long after that the country will be bankrupt.

charlie

Thanks Finch.

Alezander Tyler surely understood history and human nature.

Pity the historians of today are more concerned about being politically correct, and curry-favoring particular groups,(George Will called it 'feel good history') rather than dispensing the hard facts.

charlie

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." (Eccl. 1: 9 KJB)

"History merely repeats itself. Nothing is truly new; it has all been done or said before." (The living Bible)

FK

Finch -- Those of us on the losing side have moved beyond the 2000 election. How about you join us?

But let's just note that poor Americans are still Americans and have a right to a voice.

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